Talk:Magic Items

temp notes:

RoW and RoD = doubles spells of slots X using rings slot. PoP adds +1 spell slot of levels X using neck slot. Additive? yes. Multiplicative? Hmm. pricing = rings as expensive as weapons? shields? pearls = one-fourth the price of rings? temp can support any price at all, need to look at weaps prices for baseline. also, need to rebuild magic weaps/armor/shields plus their properties prices someplace else than item creation pages. blargh, need a format.

links to ref prices, but they need to be doubled to account for second stack of props.

should price parity between weaps/armor/shields and caster/buffer items reflect cost of dweomermetals? hrrm.

Magic_Weapons Crafting_Magic_Armor Crafting_Magic_Shields Dweomermetals

Ring of Wizardy and Ring of Divinity structure:

• boost range cost mult

duplicate structure below for rings of divinity and pearls of power...need a different stack of names? ergh...

• 1st = .5 at 1st Least
• 1-2 = .8 at 3rd Minor
• 1-3 = 1.0 at 5th Novices
• 3-5 = 1.0 at 9th Common
• 6-8 = 1.0 at 15th Sages
• 1-5 = 1.5 at 17th Major
• 2-6 = 1.6 at 18th Balanced
• 1-7 = 1.75 at 21st Exceptional
• 1-9 = 2.0 at 22nd Greater
• 9-11 = 1.0 at 23rd Vital
• 7-12 = 1.5 at 25th Prime
• 12-14 = 1.5 at 29th Adepts
• 15-17 = 1.3 at 33rd Penultimate
• 13-17 = 2.0 at 34th Absolute
• 10-17 = 4.0 at 34th Perfect
• 1-17 = 5.0 at 35th One Ring of the Magus

Preliminary Items Survey and Candidate Families from existing sources:

Worn item slots, fourteen slots, with a total of about 200 candidate/developed families of items. whew....

armor slot	=	two plus all classic armors
belt slot 	=	nine 
body slot 	=	ten
chest slot 	=	nine
eye slot	=	thirteen
feet slot 	=	twenty, plus four already written
hands slot 	=	nine
head slot 	=	ten
headband slot	=	fifteen, plus six written
neck slot	=	ten, plus three written
rings slot	=	fifty-one, plus three written.  yikes.
shoulder slot	=	thirteen
wrist slot	=	eight

Wielded or carried item slots, six classes of items must be wielded (rods, staves, wands, weapons, shields, and consumables), and then the slotless items. fifteen rods, plus a myriad of 'stuff' to untangle and discuss.

weapon slot	=	LOTS
rod		=	fifteen, also, may merge into weapons/implements
staves		=	need to discuss if we want to fold this into 'gishness' items. i'm advocating yes, but am not married to the notion. if we don't, then there's no staffs from pathfinder. at all.  yeesh.
wands		=	agains, do we merge into gishness? if not, we'll need to make from scratch, because these are just spells for UMD right now.
shields	=	LOTS
consumables  	=	currently has books, potions, scrolls, and turning stones. i'd like to add word bottles or mana bottles to replace the old celegia concept of mana stones, the optics are better on word bottles. scrolls need to be looked at hard as a gishness item. should we pre-define potions, scrolls, and bottles?
slotless	=	currently has haversacks and portable holes. i'd like to include bags of holding and a better variant of bags called secret chests, which is like the old spell with much less suck. beyond that, we're looking at figurines, carpets, banners, implements, etc.  carpets are already mounts, figurines could be wielded items, implement function can be folded into RSW's, banners could become neck or shoulder or body slot. note that all the lay magic stuff also goes in here, but that's really not combat affecting, which is why its lay magic....

we have excellent rules for skill items, what slot should they fill?  or should they always be slotless? the slotless idea makes things simpler, and we could 'prebuild' a crap-ton of items and move away from the 'build your own' model

I am fine with pre-building the skill items (in a generic sense -- e.g. 'boosts 5 skills of the player's choice, chosen at the time the item is purchased'). I'm less excited about making them slotless, as I'd rather you have to make some tough choices, and you never have to choose with slotless items -- you can get them all if you can afford them all. I would be open to making them rings that also have a small deflection bonus included (as well as versions that don't have one, for the shield wearers). I would be open to gloves that only affect dex/str skills, and hats that only affect int skills (and could include a lesser mental stat boost, if we want), and masks that only affect cha skills. There's tons of room here. Some of the 'mandatory'-ish skills, like perception, might have a pre-defined item or two, but mostly, I'd prefer to let the player choose which skill(s) get(s) boosted when they buy the item.

We could also, if we want, make the 'families' of items more like a buffet line: prices for adding each thing the item can do, that you can tack on to the item any time you want (instead if preset "this is what the 4th version of the item does"). Just a thought. It makes it a little more complex for the players, easier for us (once we wrap our head around how to price it all), and makes those magic items more like weapons/armor/shield in how they are constructed. In fact, we could riff really hard on the whole "every item can have up to two stacks of bonuses, that accumulate exactly like an enhancement bonus (cost adjusted for slot)", exactly like how weapons/armor/shields are built, but we can go nuts with what a stack actually is. There could be 4-5 options for stacks in each item (we're technically already doing this with most of the items we've written to date), but let the players choose which two they want to buy and promote. (For example, a pair of boots might have one stack that grants a scaling bonus to walk speed, while another might be scaling skill bonuses to some physical skills, another stack might be a scaling PBAoE attack, and another might be a limited use (scaling) haste-like spell-effect. Each of these 'stacks' would go from +1 to +9, both in effects and in pricing, but you could only have two stacks on the item, you choose which two.) Just a thought, since we're still at the beginning of all this.

yikes and wow. hrrrm. hmmm. ok, philosophy time: simple versus complicated. if we make every item customizable, does that explode player's heads? I'm leaning toward prebuilts for most/all of the items except armor/weaps/shields.  at a leater date, we could easily add in optional 'menu driven' items as an expansion. maybe.  we don't want to explode people's heads :)

my only counter for that would be that if EVERYTHING works like weaps/shields/armor, then people will get used to it, and it won't be confusing any more. There's that initial learning curve, and then it just clicks... but I do see your point, and share your concern.

damage-based items always do a common damage type? only common until epic, then uncommon? 

Need to discuss which items should require a 24-hour attunement period.  One suggestion is that effects which grant a numerical plus attune instantly, but any other effect requires a 24-hour attunement.  Another possibility would be 'wielded items don't require attunement, but everything else does'.

• Least (1)
• Lesser (2)
• Minor (3)

• Common (1-3)

• Moderate (4)
• Steady (5)
• Balanced (6)

• Great (4-6)

• Major (7)
• Vital (8)
• Absolute (9)

• Prime (7-9)

• Perfect (1-9)

I want to convert all the magic items into individual templates, akin to the equipment templates (in fact, identical to them).  I can still aggregate the related items together into a single page for easy viewing, but they should also be viewable separately, in my opinion.  I think this will end up being more flexible, easier to browse, and a much easier template to fill out.

• Remove the ability to place spells on magic items.
• All items have one bonus type (enhancement?) No items stack, period. Expand/improve items following the acculturated model we're already using instead.
• Potions and scrolls are simply casting a spell as a one-use item (pricing model? remove caps?)
• Create non-spell effect potions and scrolls (call them alchemical instead?)
• Rewrite/remove the item creation rules (eeeesh....)
• Look hard at the number of item slots. (Has large pricing implications.)

Design notes: Divide all wondrous items for each slot into two categories:

"Standard" items, which are things like the below, or rings of protection or cloaks of resistance, which are items you can purchase without issue.

"Special" items, which are all the other stuff, which can only be purchased (or found) with DM permission.

This allows us to populate all the slots with 'non-game-breaking' items for right now, and then we can adapt all the unique stuff as time permits.

Ideas for Boots

• Boots of Haste
• Boots of Striding and Springing
• Boots of Sure Footing
• Boots of Rooting
• Boots of Stealthy Steps

Ideas for Gloves

• Gloves of Sparks
• Gloves of Grasping
• Gloves of Lightfingers
• Gloves of Soothing
• Gloves of the Maestro

Ideas for Amulets

• natural armor + other things
  • energy drain resistance
  • ability drain resistance
  • daily/encounter instant self heal

Spell Components Pouch

• provides spell components of 1 gp or less for the spell level they are purchased for:

• lvl 0 = 10 gp
• lvl 1 = 150 gp
• lvl 2 = 500 gp
• lvl 3 =

Ideas for Spellcaster Items

• one additional target for spells with a fixed number of targets
• adjust starting square of a cone attack to be any square within 5 feet of you
• include one additional square (or more) adjacent to your area of effect in the area of effect
• magic items will be created to enable a spell to last beyond its listed duration, perhaps to a second encounter, or even all day.

Ideas for Anyone

• use scrolls for mana burning -- canning this idea; it's a bad idea.
• lay a charge on a target creature (to activate a synergy)

moved the below from the main discussion page, as this is more relevant here.

Magic Item Notes

Do we want to keep the Magic Item Creation Rules, even as a reference for GM's creating their own new items? (I think yes, despite how much work that will be)

• create a bunch of magic items that are useful for pure caster classes, to give them something to spend money on.

• extend duration of spell
• increase level cap on damage of spell (doesn't change scaling)
• increase # of targets for spell
• an item that can go into any slot (but must go into a slot) that grants 1 additional spell slot of a specified spell level.
• consider deleting some of the less popular metamagic feats and turning them into magic items.
• some items specific to styles of casting:

• ray casters -- bonus ray; 5-foot step before and/or after casting ray; better damage;
• aoe casters -- change AOE shape, larger AOE, add AOE to touch or single-target spell (?), 1 free 'selective' target
• summoners -- more hp's, increased move speed; increased to-hit, damage, DR, ER, etc. -- one bonus effect per item
• synergists -- increase damage from synergies; leaves condition in place (epic?)

• create set of magic items for endless ammo (for each type), as well as clarifying costs of single expendable ammo

• Haversacks:

• 'normal' haversack - good weight capacity, low actual weight (5 lbs, regardless of what's in it), only a 3' diameter opening -- nothing bigger than 3' in any dimension can be shoved into it.
• 'wide-mouthed' haversack - slightly less weight capacity, higher actual weight (10 lbs, regardless of what's in it), no limit to size of things you can shove into it, as long as it doesn't exceed weight capacity of bag.
• 'quick-draw' haversack - x times per day, draw an item from the sack as a free action (instead of swift). lower weight capacity, but otherwise same as 'normal' haversack.
• 'kidnapper's' haversack - can keep willing (or helpless) living things in the sack, in a state of stasis. 30 lbs actual weight.
• 'smuggler's haversack - looks like a shirt, takes up chest slot (isn't slotless). 1 lbs actual weight, but less the capacity than a normal one (half?).

• bags of holding could still be auxiliary storage, and we could add a consumable trait to them, allowing them to be permanently merged with a haversack to increase it's storage capacity somewhat.

• this increase would (maybe) get blown away if/when the haversack gets upgraded, so it's a short-term means of bridging the gap to the next haversack model.
• would need to make it more expensive to tack on enough bags of holding to bring the haversack up to the next equivalent weight class.

• get rid of synergy bonus for multiple enchants on single items.
  • instead, first enchant is normal cost, any additional enchants cost double.
• slotless items which are only available as slotless items (e.g. handy haversack, flying carpet, etc.) are normally priced
  • items which are normally "slotted" items but are converted to slotless cost triple normal price.

• create some non-magical ways of adding +to-hit and +damage to weapons/shields/armor/implements
  • will not stack with magic, but cannot be suppressed by anti-magic/dispel, etc.
  • instead of costing more, I think they just shouldn't go as high as +9
  • no properties? (we could, but it would be a lot of work that we don't really need to do right now)
    • quenches of oil, water, brine, blood for +to-hit
    • tempers of single, triple, and seven-fold for +base damage

Name	School	Cast Time	Description
Secret Chest	Secret Chest (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell)	Std	Secret Chest (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell)