Talk:True Dweomers: Difference between revisions

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  Take a look at the top two [[Auric Enhancer]] items. If we only build TDs up to spell level 13, the last item in this clade is useless... just FYI --- IMO, this is why we should go with the '5 feats & 14th spell level' approach.
  Take a look at the top two [[Auric Enhancer]] items. If we only build TDs up to spell level 13, the last item in this clade is useless... just FYI --- IMO, this is why we should go with the '5 feats & 14th spell level' approach.
SOLD! :)


==System and Structure==
==System and Structure==
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==Current status==
==Current status==
* True Dweomers - data compilation begun
* True Dweomers - data compilation begun
* Interoperate with Abstract actions/become ritual magics?
* for balance pass, need to take into account the true-dweomer damage capacities of clerics, mages, druids, bard, paladins, rangers, etc.  ergo, need to develop a bare-bones 'early implementation' of TD's
* Some casting times measured as a standard action usable in Real-Time, some casting times measured in Intervals?
 
* Require skill rolls vs DC's to cast? (Old idea, but, it kind of works with the new systems pretty good....)
Proposed mechanics: exactly like spells, except you only learn one true dweomer of level 10 'spontaneously'. you can take Truemagic feats to learn more, and git gud with them.
* Example, to cast a True Dweomer in combat time requires a Bailiwick Skill Roll vs a Challenging DC for the Caster level.
 
* Casting a True Dweomer as a ritual takes much longer and more 'stuff' (magic circle, altar, implements and unguents, horrifying sacrifices, etc) but does not require a bailiwick skill roll.
* Require skill rolls vs DC's to cast. To cast a True Dweomer as a Full Round action requires a Bailiwick Skill Roll vs a Hard DC for the Caster's current level. Casting as a standard action or swift action requires a Challenging DC roll. Truemagic Feats give bonuses to these rolls. (see below)
* Casting a True Dweomer as a ritual takes much longer and more 'stuff' (magic circle, altar, implements and unguents, horrifying sacrifices, etc) but does not require a bailiwick skill roll. Such Rituals typically require a day or longer.
* can a 'DC to cast' field be added to the spell template? do we have defined templates for the TD1 circles?
 


==Examples of new True Dweomers==
==Examples of new True Dweomers==
* '''10th'''  Corrupt Dweomers: Target a foe, any items they have no longer give them a bonus until the end of the encounter. If the items have a CL of 20 or below, there is no roll.  If the items have a CL of 21 or higher, make a [[Caster Check]] vs a target of 10+ the CL of each item.  If it succeeds, the item no longer gives a bonus until the end of the encounter.  If it fails, there is no effect.
* '''10th'''  Corrupt Dweomers:
 
old example, but you get the idea


* '''11th'''
* '''11th'''
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* '''12th'''
* '''12th'''


* '''13th'''  Accursed Dweomers: As Corrupt Dweomers, except any affected items inflict a penalty equal to their normal bonus until the end of the encounter.
* '''13th'''  Accursed Dweomers:


* '''14th'''
* '''14th'''
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==Examples of new Feats==
==Examples of new Feats==
: Truemagic Feats
: Truemagic Feats
:*  Truemagic Scribe    - learn two new true dweomers of 10th level
:*  Truemagic Scribe    - learn three new true dweomers of 10th or 11th level, +1 untyped (circumstance?) to skill rolls to fast cast level, 21 to take
:*  Truemagic Supplicant - learn three new true dweomers of 10th or 11th levels
:*  Truemagic Supplicant - learn three new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, level 26 to take
:*  Truemagic Ordained   - learn five new true dweomers of 10th thru 12th levels
:*  Truemagic Ordinate   - learn five new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, ignore 1's, level 26 to take
:*  Truemagic Nominate  - learn eight new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels
:*  Truemagic Nominate  - learn six new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, level 31
:*  Truemagic Magus      - learn thirteen new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels
:*  Truemagic Heirophant - learn seven new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, level 31
this model has 5 TD levels, and gives 31 TD spells for 5 feats
 
-OR-
 
:*  Truemagic Scribe    - learn three new true dweomers of 10th level
:* Truemagic Supplicant - learn five new true dweomers of 10th or 11th levels
:*  Truemagic Nominate  - learn eight new true dweomers of 10th thru 12th levels
:*  Truemagic Magus      - learn thirteen new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels
  this model has only 4 TD levels, leaving more room for metamagic, and gives 29 TD spells for four feats
 
 
IMO, picking out 21 spells at once, because you took a feat, is a bit much.  Depending on how many True Dweomers you intend to write, I would suggest that each feat give access to between 3 and 5 (for a total of 12 to 20 if you take them all), while also allowing access to higher level TD's.  This would limit the amount of picking and choosing, and also keep TD's both desirable and seemingly rare.
 
how about that? :)
 
do you have any sense of how many TD's you plan to write up? Is it ~50? ~100?  IMO, in any given campaign, no one should be able to acquire more than about 10% of the TD's available, even if they take all the feats.  This allows for replayability, forces tough choices, etc.
 


  maybe a hundred or two? i've found source material for several hundred, and most of them are such junk it'll have to be completely gutted and re-written, but there are interesting names and concepts galore.  we'll see when we get there, i'm just spitballing on this right now.
  this model has 5 TD levels, and gives 25 TD spells and +5 to fast-cast them (rolling vs Impossible) for 5 feats

Revision as of 16:33, 6 August 2020

Take a look at the top two Auric Enhancer items. If we only build TDs up to spell level 13, the last item in this clade is useless... just FYI --- IMO, this is why we should go with the '5 feats & 14th spell level' approach.

SOLD! :)


System and Structure

  • damage scaling

True Dweomers do MUCH more damage than levl 9 spells, unless extensive manaburning happens.


New True Dweomer Damage Model
Spell Circle Burn Cost Min Level Base Dice max dice range avg perfected
TD1 +1 21st 1d6+6/CL 31d6+186 217-372 294.5 744
TD2 +1 23rd 1d6+8/CL 31d6+248 279-434 356.5 868
TD3 +1 25th 1d6+9/CL 32d6+288 320-480 400 960
TD4 +1 27th 1d6+10/CL 32d6+320 392-512 452 1024
TD5 +1 29th 1d6+11/CL 33d6+363 399-561 480 1122
TD6 +1 31st 1d6+13/CL 33d6+429 462-627 544.5 1254
TD7 +1 33rd 1d6+15/CL 34d6+510 544-714 629 1428
TD8 +1 35th 1d6+16/CL 34d6+544 588-748 668 1496
TD9 +1 37th 1d6+17/CL 35d6+595 630-805 717.5 1610

True Dweomers are affected by metamagic feats, but note that many of the more potent feats have such a large level adjustment, they cannot be fit onto the higher level true dweomers without use of a magic wand or spell research.



  • range

true Dweomers can use any range


  • area of effect

true dweomers with AOE's tend to be LARGE, up to thousands of feet, miles, even leagues. note that metamagic can make even that larger.

  • saves

true dweomers follow the basic rule 'no auto effects', but may impose severe save penalties in exchange for smaller range and/or area of effect, to the extreme of the example below "Corrupt Dweomers"



Current status

  • True Dweomers - data compilation begun
  • for balance pass, need to take into account the true-dweomer damage capacities of clerics, mages, druids, bard, paladins, rangers, etc. ergo, need to develop a bare-bones 'early implementation' of TD's

Proposed mechanics: exactly like spells, except you only learn one true dweomer of level 10 'spontaneously'. you can take Truemagic feats to learn more, and git gud with them.

  • Require skill rolls vs DC's to cast. To cast a True Dweomer as a Full Round action requires a Bailiwick Skill Roll vs a Hard DC for the Caster's current level. Casting as a standard action or swift action requires a Challenging DC roll. Truemagic Feats give bonuses to these rolls. (see below)
  • Casting a True Dweomer as a ritual takes much longer and more 'stuff' (magic circle, altar, implements and unguents, horrifying sacrifices, etc) but does not require a bailiwick skill roll. Such Rituals typically require a day or longer.
  • can a 'DC to cast' field be added to the spell template? do we have defined templates for the TD1 circles?


Examples of new True Dweomers

  • 10th Corrupt Dweomers:
  • 11th
  • 12th
  • 13th Accursed Dweomers:
  • 14th

Examples of new Feats

Truemagic Feats
  • Truemagic Scribe - learn three new true dweomers of 10th or 11th level, +1 untyped (circumstance?) to skill rolls to fast cast level, 21 to take
  • Truemagic Supplicant - learn three new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, level 26 to take
  • Truemagic Ordinate - learn five new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, ignore 1's, level 26 to take
  • Truemagic Nominate - learn six new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, level 31
  • Truemagic Heirophant - learn seven new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels, +1 untyped to skill rolls to fast cast, level 31
this model has 5 TD levels, and gives 25 TD spells and +5 to fast-cast them (rolling vs Impossible) for 5 feats
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