Talk:True Dweomers

Take a look at the top two Auric Enhancer items. If we only build TDs up to spell level 13, the last item in this clade is useless... just FYI --- IMO, this is why we should go with the '5 feats & 14th spell level' approach.

System and Structure

• damage scaling

True Dweomers do MUCH more damage than levl 9 spells, unless extensive manaburning happens.

New True Dweomer Damage Model

Spell Circle	Burn Cost	Min Level	Base Dice	max dice	range	avg	perfected
TD1	+1	21st	1d6+6/CL	31d6+186	217-372	294.5	744
TD2	+1	23rd	1d6+8/CL	31d6+248	279-434	356.5	868
TD3	+1	25th	1d6+9/CL	32d6+288	320-480	400	960
TD4	+1	27th	1d6+10/CL	32d6+320	392-512	452	1024
TD5	+1	29th	1d6+11/CL	33d6+363	399-561	480	1122
TD6	+1	31st	1d6+13/CL	33d6+429	462-627	544.5	1254
TD7	+1	33rd	1d6+15/CL	34d6+510	544-714	629	1428
TD8	+1	35th	1d6+16/CL	34d6+544	588-748	668	1496
TD9	+1	37th	1d6+17/CL	35d6+595	630-805	717.5	1610

True Dweomers are affected by metamagic feats, but note that many of the more potent feats have such a large level adjustment, they cannot be fit onto the higher level true dweomers without use of a magic wand or spell research.

• range

true Dweomers can use any range

• area of effect

true dweomers with AOE's tend to be LARGE, up to thousands of feet, miles, even leagues. note that metamagic can make even that larger.

• saves

true dweomers follow the basic rule 'no auto effects', but may impose severe save penalties in exchange for smaller range and/or area of effect, to the extreme of the example below "Corrupt Dweomers"

Current status

• True Dweomers - data compilation begun
• Interoperate with Abstract actions/become ritual magics?
• Some casting times measured as a standard action usable in Real-Time, some casting times measured in Intervals?
• Require skill rolls vs DC's to cast? (Old idea, but, it kind of works with the new systems pretty good....)
• Example, to cast a True Dweomer in combat time requires a Bailiwick Skill Roll vs a Challenging DC for the Caster level.
• Casting a True Dweomer as a ritual takes much longer and more 'stuff' (magic circle, altar, implements and unguents, horrifying sacrifices, etc) but does not require a bailiwick skill roll.

Examples of new True Dweomers

• 10th Corrupt Dweomers: Target a foe, any items they have no longer give them a bonus until the end of the encounter. If the items have a CL of 20 or below, there is no roll. If the items have a CL of 21 or higher, make a Caster Check vs a target of 10+ the CL of each item. If it succeeds, the item no longer gives a bonus until the end of the encounter. If it fails, there is no effect.

old example, but you get the idea

• 11th

• 12th

• 13th Accursed Dweomers: As Corrupt Dweomers, except any affected items inflict a penalty equal to their normal bonus until the end of the encounter.

• 14th

Examples of new Feats

Truemagic Feats

• Truemagic Scribe - learn two new true dweomers of 10th level
• Truemagic Supplicant - learn three new true dweomers of 10th or 11th levels
• Truemagic Ordained - learn five new true dweomers of 10th thru 12th levels
• Truemagic Nominate - learn eight new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels
• Truemagic Magus - learn thirteen new true dweomers of 10th thru 14th levels

this model has 5 TD levels, and gives 31 TD spells for 5 feats

-OR-

• Truemagic Scribe - learn three new true dweomers of 10th level
• Truemagic Supplicant - learn five new true dweomers of 10th or 11th levels
• Truemagic Nominate - learn eight new true dweomers of 10th thru 12th levels
• Truemagic Magus - learn thirteen new true dweomers of 10th thru 13th levels

 this model has only 4 TD levels, leaving more room for metamagic, and gives 29 TD spells for four feats

IMO, picking out 21 spells at once, because you took a feat, is a bit much. Depending on how many True Dweomers you intend to write, I would suggest that each feat give access to between 3 and 5 (for a total of 12 to 20 if you take them all), while also allowing access to higher level TD's. This would limit the amount of picking and choosing, and also keep TD's both desirable and seemingly rare.

how about that? :)

do you have any sense of how many TD's you plan to write up? Is it ~50? ~100? IMO, in any given campaign, no one should be able to acquire more than about 10% of the TD's available, even if they take all the feats. This allows for replayability, forces tough choices, etc.

maybe a hundred or two? i've found source material for several hundred, and most of them are such junk it'll have to be completely gutted and re-written, but there are interesting names and concepts galore.  we'll see when we get there, i'm just spitballing on this right now.